My chrysler 300c has been stalling everytime i drive it. ive taken it to two chrysler dealerships. one of them charged me more then $300 for nothing because they couldn't even find the problem but ended up charging me for the time. the second dealership changed my fuel tank that chrysler gave a lifetime warranty on. it did not fix the problem. the car is still stalling at every stop i make. i think the problem isn't with the fuel tank because it did not fix the stalling issue. i think that its something to do with the wiring or computer. i also think that chrysler should fix this issue asap. they said it was the gas tank but its clearly not. why should i be paying thousands of dollars for a faulty problem that isnt my fault. i take care of my car and its only got 140,000km on it. chrysler told me that it would cost thousands of dollars to find the problem. please let me know what i should do. i think that chrysler said it was the fuel tank because that would be a cheaper way to handle with this issue other then spending hours to find the problem. chrysler should be fixing this problem not me. the car has died on me while making a left turn in the middle of a intersection. that is not safe and it has happened to me more then 20 times. i also feel like im damaging my car everytime i have to turn it back on. it also guzzles the gas more just by turning it back on everytime. please get chrysler to do something about this. if the car still has the stalling issue after getting the gas tank changed then atleast get chrysler to find the problem at no cost to me.
The car cut off 3 times in one day for no apparent reason; once while pulling out into oncoming traffic, then after fueling the car and pulling out of the gas station into oncoming traffic, then while driving down the street at about 35 mph. fortunately, i safely guided the car to the side of the road to avoid a collision. the dealership replaced 2 sensors (code:p0038)- $501.98. one week later, the car continued to cut off while driving. the dealership codes that came up: p0038, p0058, p0052, p0032, pmc & engine harness,& pmc engine computer - $2000 - declined repairs because sensors (p0038) were just replaced . chrysler service bulletin 08-34-05 june 30, 2015 addresses this issue. chrysler corp -michael browsowski says the car (now 56,484 miles) is out of warranty so they owe us nothing, but as a good will gesture, they will pay for 2 parts only - not labor. he admitted that a car cutting off is unacceptable, but refused to cover the entire cost of repair. he also refused to reply to my written complaint in writing. chrysler continues to shirk their responsibility to recall and repair this manufacturer's defect. customer with same complaint: http://www.carcomplaints.com/chrysler/300c/2006/engine/engine_stalls_shuts_off_while_driving.shtml
Stalled on several occasions after filling the tank up. also while going at lower speeds. hesitation and lost of power afterwards. since my last fill up, the car won't start now. i read that hundreds of other people are having the same problem due to a float swells up into a stuck open position, allowing an overfill condition. *tr
I had half a tank of gas. i stoped at the gas station and fiiled my car up. when i pulled out of the gas station as im riding down the rode my car felt at it was jerking are as the transmission was slipping then the oil light came on and the car shut off in the middle of the rode. i put it in neutral and crunk it back up and drove into a nearby parking lot and as soon as i pulled into the parking lot it shut off again. i then again put it in neutral and crunk it again. it shut off after a minute. i then repeated those steps and just set there for thirty minutes or so and let it run and it didn't cut off after that. every time i fill my tank up i have this same problem. my car runs fine long as i dont fill my tank up.
After topping off the gas tank the vehicle was driven two blocks where it was then pulled onto a busy access road in town. the vehicle was slowing down to a red light when the engine stalled for a moment, the oil pressure light came on, then immediately cut out and would not restart. after putting on hazard lights and attempting to call for a tow attempts were made to restart the car and after about 20 minutes of waiting the engine turned over and it was possible to pull the car off the road to a mechanic a block up. the car was scanned and no engine codes were found and oil pressure was found to be fine. the car was given a valve flush and started up fine after that. the incident repeated itself on 3/29/15 once more after filling up the tank, after going to blocks the car once more stalled and shut down. at this point i am very concerned for my safety with this vehicle if this is what is going to happen every time the car needs gas and this should be address with a recall after seeing so many complaints. *tr
I'm having the same problem with the car stalling when i fill up the gas tank all the way. it has happened numerous times and is very dangerous. i pulled out in traffic and it stalled, blocking traffic. it took several times to start again. very dangerous. i could die. i took it to my local dealership in scottsbluff, ne and they don't see an extended lifetime warranty on the gas tank, like there is supposed to be, like it mentions on the nhtsa website. *tr
After fueling my car to full tank capacity (93 octane as always) i pulled out of the gas station and slowed down to stop at a red light (traveling at less than 10 mph). the engine stalled as i came to a full stop. i placed the transmission in park and re-started the engine. engine started fine and i drove for about 5 miles with no further issue. note: check engine light did not come on and all other dash indications were normal. after parking the vehicle i inspected the gas cap and verified that it was secured tight and not loose. also checked under the fuel tank and engine compartment for anything out of the ordinary. did not see or smell anything obvious. *tr
2006 chrysler 300c - after fueling up got about 1/2mile down the road engine just cut out (not electrical as i didn't loose dash lights) just like the engine stopped for a few seconds and came back on. thought it was a fluke and kept going and it happened again twice, turned around and took the car home happened a couple more times while trying to get home. haven't driven the car since and that was 5 days ago. *tr
I was getting off work. stopped by my barbershop to get a haircut, than planned on heading home. but i received a phone call from my wife to pick up a few things before i got home. i was in the store for about 15 minutes. the was running great. no over heating issue or nothing. temp gauge was at it normal operation temp. i'm out of the store in the car trying to start it up. but getting nothing. but when it does start i hear alot of engine noise. so i shut it down and have it towed to my home. had a friend of mines who works on cars come check it out. than he tells me i need a new motor due to valve seat had dropped.
The engine shut off completely while driving. this caused a total loss in power steering, head lights, and anti-lock brakes. fortunately i was on a well lit road with a long straightaway and able to muscle the car to a safe stop. had i been a few miles farther down the road i would have been on a winding road with no street lights. it would have certainly caused a major accident. i took the car into a mechanic and they found nothing wrong with it. *tr
When coming to a complete stop or sometimes at low speed, the vehicle will stall. this incident occurred four times in one day. *tr
Vehicle started randomly shutting off primarily at stops and gradually became more frequent to shutting off while driving and shifting backwards. *tr
Car began overheating frequently despite plenty of fluid in radiator system. car overheated while idling and engine just stopped working.
My son was driving the call when it first happened where he was on hwy 155 and the engine shut off he had to pull off to the side and then he was able to start it and get the car home. i drove it and it did the same thing where the engine shut off while driving. had full take of gas and everything. dash lights would flicker and go out and engine shuts off and it kept doing the same thing. but no chrysler dealership could figure out why it was doing that. the vehicle was in motion when it would shut off. chrysler is stating to everyone that it was lack of maintenance for the 2006 chrysler c. they had replaced the gas tank but never said why it needed it replaced. but after it was replaced kept shutting off and now my car needs a new engine.
2006 chrysler 300c. stalls shortly after fueling. does not resolve until the gas cap has been removed and allowed to sit. called the dealership and they say my car does not fall under the recall parameters. was told to reference this number pe13-016. *tr
Purchased a 2006 300c srt8 in 2014. this is the 2nd time that this has happened. after the 1st refueling the car stalled and bucked and then after a few miles calmed down. i thought perhaps it was bad gas. during the 2nd refueling, with 93 octane, and just as the fuel clicked off, the engine stalled. no check engine light in either situation. the car was worse than the last time. the car stalled at each light all the way home. this happened approximately 4 times and then it stalled again as i parked it in my driveway. i called the local dealer concerning this and they said they are only ordering 6 replacement gas tanks a month and that 95% of the time an additional flex pipe or tube breaks during the repair procedure and that i would be responsible for this additional cost. what kind of a deal is that? i thought warranty work was to be at no cost to the consumer. *tr
I have a 2006 chrysler 300c that recently broke down. when i took it to the dealership for repairs they said that valve seat deteriorated and dropped on the piston. they said it had a grenade effect and sent metal everywhere, which jammed metal inside piston. i was told that i need a new engine which would cost me $3,500 for a used engine and $5,000 for a new engine with $2,200 labor costs. i did some research and have found that there are numerous people that have experienced the same issue. these are some resources i found: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/why-some-late-model-dodgechrysler-vehicles-are-prone-to-catastrophic-engine-failure-210043421.html http://www.torquenews.com/397/two-fatal-flaws-ruining-chrysler-engines-catastrophic-breakdowns http://www.carcomplaints.com/chrysler/300c/2006/engine/engine-7.shtml http://www.reddit.com/r/cars/comments/257x31/2006_chrysler_300c_dropped_valve_seat_damage/ http://www.challengertalk.com/forums/f188/report-pre-mature-chrysler-engine-failure-98463/ http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/archive/index.php/t-187432.html http://www.justanswer.com/chrysler/6qzew-chrysler-300c-5-7-hemi-dropped-valve-seat.html http://www.challengerforum.com/f17/engine-failure-1123/ http://www.lxforums.com/board/showthread.php/359652-new-from-s-jersey-2005-chrysler-300c-dropped-valve-seat i also joined a group on facebook and personally talked to many people who this has happened to. i called chrysler to notify them of the issue and was told that there was nothing that they could do. i asked to speak to a supervisor and they said they stand behind the original decision. i have contacted the bbb, the local news station, and the consumer protection division of the attorney general's office in michigan (the state where chrysler's headquarters are located). *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2006 chrysler 300c. when the contact attempted to start the ignition, the vehicle failed to start. the vehicle was towed to the dealer, who stated that the engine piston exploded and extensively damaged the engine. the contact was informed that the engine needed to be replaced. the vehicle was not repaired and the manufacturer was notified. the approximate failure mileage was 84,320.
Was passing a slower vehicle when car stalled. two days later, after filling up with gas, it started dyeing off and on. this could be a very serious problem if driving at highway speeds!! *tr
I drove my 2006 chrysler 300c hemi with my soon to be wife and 4 year old daughter to go food shopping and was low on gas after shopping i filled the tank up at a chevron station and as i tried to pull out of the station it died. it took 3 tries and it started again then on the freeway as i was changing lanes it died again in the middle of traffic and i was scared to death for the safety of my fiance and small child i coasted to a stop in the middle lane because i couldn't get over either way with cars behind me honking i calmly tried to start the car and on the 3rd try it started and got us back to martinez. it died twice more at stop signs and a light. very dangerious. i bought the car a week ago because my fianc is 6 months pregnant. and i wanted her to have a 4 door to make it easy on her with the kids. *js
I was driving home from work and everything seemed fine. i stopped at the convenience store before i went home, so i turned the car off, went in, and when i came back out, the vehicle would not start. it was trying to turn over but wouldn't. eventually i got it started for a few seconds and revved the engine a little to keep it from shutting back off, and it sounded like rocks were inside the engine, then turned off after maybe 3-4 seconds of running. got it towed to a local chain garage. the next day they called me and said they got it running for about 30 seconds and it sounded like there were rocks inside of it and that its probably a broken rod, and that could have damaged much more inside. now i'm not sure what to do with this car. the repairs might end up costing the value of the car, but selling it without an engine is basically worthless. i have no backup car to drive in the mean time, or money/credit to buy a new one. this should not have happened to a well maintained car with under 100k miles on it, and it seems to be a common problem. the company should at least acknowledge there is an issue. updated 2/12/2015*js
Tl* the contact owns a 2006 chrysler 300c. the contact stated that the vehicle stalled multiple times. the oil sensor light also illuminated each time the vehicle stalled. the oil was changed twice by a local mechanic and the failure recurred. the vehicle was taken to an authorized dealer who was unable to replicate nor diagnose the failure. the contact was unable to pass an inspection due to the vehicle having a fractured passenger side tie rod. an authorized dealer diagnosed and repaired the right tie rod. the vehicle was scheduled to be inspected and repaired. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the approximate failure mileage was 66,430.
Very soon after purchasing the 2006 chrysler 300c (used), it began shutting off while driving. obviously this is incredibly dangerous. after "googling" is seems people all over with this vehicle have had similar problems, an some were attributing this to filing up the gas tank. we took due caution not to fill up the tank (how ridiculous is this?) and the problem has continued. an extended warranty was purchased from the ford dealership we purchased at. after the run around about who actually "fixes" the car, it was taken to a chrysler dealership who charged us $400.00 for a battery and then replaced some wiring harness which did nothing. we are back at it with the dealership. i see an article in the la times on the internet saying to take the vehicle back to the dealership. that's not helping. we haven't put 2,000 miles on this vehicle in almost a year now. it is unsafe to drive and has no value. help. nhtsa obviously knows about this. http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-chrysler-engine-stalls-20130514-story.html. *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2006 chrysler 300c. the contact stated that when driving at various speeds the vehicle would stall without warning. the contact indicated that after restarting the engine the vehicle would operate normally before stalling again. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the manufacturer was notified of the defect but no remedy was offered. the failure mileage was 105,000.
On april 9th at approximately 6:00 p.m. i filled my car with fuel until the pump shut off. after replacing the fuel lid i drove about 1/4 mile and stopped at a traffic light to make a left turn. almost as soon as i stopped the engine started to run rough, as if it were running out of fuel and stopped. i placed the car in neutral, started the engine and drove another block before stopping at another traffic signal. again, the engine sputtered and stopped. i got it started and reached park manor nursing home and shut the engine off while i went to visit. when i left the nursing home, i went down the driveway and about 1/8 mile to a 5 lane intersection that had a traffic signal. the engine sputtered and stopped again just as the light turned green. i had to quickly put the car in neutral to restart it then carefully let off the gas pedal enough to put the gear shift back in "d" and drive away. this was the first time i experienced any engine stops, but it seems to be pretty dangerous, since you cannot predict when it will happen and nothing seemed to trigger the faults. each time the engine stopped, i noticed the oil pressure indicator was displayed and watched it rise to normal when the engine started again. *tr
After fill up engine shut off five times in traffic. *tr
Since last march my chrysler 300c srt8 2006 is turning off the engine while in movement. i noticed the problem always happen when the fuel tank is full or around 3/4. it's a very serious problem because i almost crashed the car many times considering that when the engine turns off the steering gets heavy and the brakes doesn't work properly. now i'm not confident to put my family in the car because i am afraid to have a collision and hurt myself and my family. i made a research at the internet and i realized that a lot of 300c owners have the same problem that it's called as engine stall. now i want chrysler to help me to solve this matter considering it already happened several times and it's very dangerous to drive the car with this defective. *tr
Driving home from work on interstate and the car lunged and then seemed to be fine, until getting off the interstate and stopping at the light it was very obvious it was missing out. it did not throw a engine code until pulling into driveway. i immediately did a scan and came up with a p1414 cylinder 4 reactivation control performance possible causes (k452) mds solenoid no.4 control short to voltage oil passages restricted lifter mds solenoid no.4 pcm we then took to dealership and they charged me a 125.00 to tell me what i already told them. and followed up with they wanted to charge me 600.00 to tear it down and inspect it further. so i did the tear down myself and there is nothing that can be found to explain why a car with only 92000 miles on it and 5-20 royal purple oil and k&n oil filter were changed on a religious bases, and clean coolant would cause a piston to basically destroy itself. the motor has to be replaced costing over $6000 almost more then car is worth running. *tr
2006 chrysler 300c, 5.7l hemi engine, i had driven the vehicle approx, 25 miles with no problems. stopped in a parking lot, went into the business. when i came out to start my engine, the car would not start. the engine would crank but not run. i called roadside service for help. they could not get the car to run. i had the car towed to a repair shop. the shop diagnosed the problem. the shop reported to me that 3 cylinders had no compression, the valves had dropped down into the motor, three spark plugs were crushed. i needed to replace the engine. i have done some research on this model engine, this problem has happened to other 5.7 hemi's. the valve retainers fail and let the valve drop and cause severe engine damage. this could have been avoided if i had been notified. there is a retro-fit available to change the valve retainers. i now have a current bill for the diagnosis, removal and install a used engine for $8,063.26. this charge can go up if the retro-fit has not been done yet. i am waiting to find out if the replacement used engine has been retro-fitted. *tr
While trying to merge on the freeway the motor stalled and made a rolling drumming not a high pitch noise wouldn't re start towed it home got it started and the engine is making a loud squeak noise it won't idle on its own and it stalls when put into gear. *tr
My chrysler 300c hemi started idling rough and showing code p0300. oil/plugs were changed, and my car worked well for ~500 miles. after which the low oil level light chimmed. after taking to the dealer the oil pressure switch was replaced and all was right. close to a month later, while stopped at a rail crossing the car stalled with error code p1520. i checked the oil which was low and added to the correct level. in the oil, there was no discoloration or anything to cause alarm. i started the engine up and while the p1520 was gone i had the p0300. after removing the manifold small aluminum pieces where found inside. plugs that were close to 4k miles old were ash covered and throttle body. valves and cylinder #3 head need to be replaced. *tr
When i started pulling out of the driveway it started to shutter badly and stalled out. it started back up but it immediately was running very rough as if it wasn't running on all cylinders. i took it to my mechanic where he put it on the scanner and a code came up stating that the #6 cylinder was faulty. when running the car has no power and you can hear a distinct clicking of the mds solenoid. as it click on and off the cars idle was normal then very rough. service records are immaculate, oil changed every 3000 miles with mobil 5-20 full synthetic. service suggestions have been strictly followed. the solenoid was changed out and it ran fine for about 500 miles and then it started doing it again, very random and mostly when you go into passing gear on the freeway that's when you totally lose power and it shutters violently. we cant find anything for suggestions on how to fix it except that it may be a bad computer or a clogged oil port in the cylinder head. both possible solutions are very costly and i would hate to spend all that money and it not fix the issue. there is a serious issue because of the acceleration problem could very well cause a serious accident. *tr
After filling gas tank. engine stalled and cut-off. *tr
I pulled out of the gas station after topping the tank off with gas. at the first red light the vehicle stalled. it stalled again at the second red light. after i got on the highway, the vehicle ran fine again. *tr
In january 2013 i needed a jump due to the frigid temperature. following the jump my engine light would blink on and off occasionally. when i went to the dealership for a routine oil change on february 17, 2014 i explained this to the technician who stated that there was nothing the dealership could do if the engine light was not on at that time. two days later on february 19th, i called the dealership to confirm what the technical told me was correct. the service manager stated that the technician gave me the correct information and that when my engine light came back on to come back so that they could diagnose the problem at the time. i also informed him that my receipt stated that i declined repairs which i did not. he stated that the language on the receipt was for general repairs and that i did not have to worry about it. on march 1, 2014 my car was smoking profusely. because the dealership was closed i had my car put on a diagnostic machine by another repair facility who stated that my engine was locked. *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2006 chrysler 300c. the contact stated, while driving approximately 5 mph, the vehicle stalled without warning. additionally, the vehicle would sporadically stall after being refueled. the contact was able to restart the vehicle however, the failure was recurring. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the manufacturer was notified of the failure . the failure and current mileage was 34,000. *tr
While driving down the road, the car stalled with no signs of issues. this has happened multiple times without any common reason. *tr
Filled up the car with gas drove down the road then the engine died did it twice to me. *tr
Vehicle will stall while driving or surge while trying to stop without notice for up to thirty minutes or approximately 20 miles after normal fuel up (no topping off!). i suddenly surged while approaching another vehicle from behind at a stop light and my vehicle nearly caused a collision. while driving on a two-lane curved road the vehicle stalled causing loss of steering and near collision with on-coming traffic and had to stop quickly which caused a road hazard for other vehicles coming around a tight turn behind me. once restarted, i continued on same road and vehicle died again in a turn on same road causing the steering to go out again which lead to veering off the road and with the potential of falling down a 30 foot un-guarded decline. vehicle will stall and surge while in idle as well. i have been able to replicate this issue reliably on three separate occasions. i welcome any skeptics from chrysler or other investigative authorities to contact me so that i may demonstrate the severity of this issue if necessary. this is dangerous!!! *tr
After filling up the gas tank, the engine will stall several times. when idling at a light or stop sign and sometimes when traveling at low rpms. this engine has stalled when entering the parkway nearly being rear ended. this has occurred for the past two months several times, only when i fill up the gas tank. *tr
I have had this car for 7 years, never had an issue. on february 23,2014 i went to shell and filled up the car with $49.00. i do not remember if i ever filled the car up before. i'm sure i have but i usually put 20/30 bucks in. but i just found out about stop n shop gas savings and received a discount. i tried to put 50 in but it only took 49.00. i got back in the car and i tried to pull away from the pump and it shut down. i thought maybe it was a fluke since i was basically at a roll. i drove 2 blocks and at the traffic light it died. i proceeded to make a u-turn to return home. the car died 3 times in a 5 block span. i took the car to my cousin who had a computer, no codes came up but the car shut down twice. i parked the car and took out a different car. my cousin thought it was bad gas or a bad oil change which i had done on feb 22, 2014 i just returned home and googled, "chrysler 300c stalling" and found the article that this has been occurring, and here i am. i guess i will contact chrysler in the morning. *tr
The car stalled and restarted itself on the interstate over 10 times yesterday. i got off the interstate and the car stalled 6 times on local streets and had to be restarted with the starter 6 times. i have reported this problem to nhtsa before. the local paper reported last week (feb 15, 2014) that chrysler had acknowledge the problem as the fuel tank and they would extend the fuel tank warranty for life in cars now on the road. i contacted the chrysler dealership on feb 17, 2014 and they said to contact chrysler at 800 992 1997. i contacted chrysler at 800 992 1997 on feb 17, 2014 and they took my information and said that they would pass it to the technical department and then get back to me (case # [xxx]). i again contacted chrysler at 800 992 1997 on feb 20, 2014 and they said they knew nothing about the problem (case # [xxx] from 2/17) and that i was not scheduled to get a letter. i have had this problem from 2006 and chrysler has always said it might be bad gas or whatever and have indicated that i was the only one to have this problem. i have replaced 3 sensors and the pcm over the years with no change in symptoms. chrysler might have owned up to the problem with nhtsa pe13016, however they have had the same story with me over the years, from the first time i reported the car stalling 3 months after i purchased the car in 2006. does nhtsa take chryslers word that they will fix the problem or do they check up on them and make chrysler fix the problem? this car was purchased for my wife and she has refused to drive it for the last 3 years. i only drive it if i have to. information redacted pursuant to the freedom of information act (foia), 5 u.s.c. 552(b)(6). *tr
Everytime i fill up my tank, and begin to drive, if i slow down and/or come to a stop, the engine dies. this will happen several times until i pick up speed or park the car for an extended time. if i get on the highway, i don't seem to have a problem. only when i'm driving slowly, right after i fill up my tank. if i let the car sit for several hours after refueling, i don't have this problem. on my way to work today, the car stalled out 4 times at 4 different lights. *tr
After i fill up (i do not overfill), within the first several miles i drive, the vehicle will stall when slowing down for a stop light. i have also had it that at 40-50 mph it will "hesitate/jerk" like there is a fuel mix issue. this has happened two times in the last week. *tr
Car stalled multiple times on road after i filled the tank; to date dealership has replaced canister and purge valve, replace oxygen filter, and is now recommending replacing fuel tank. *tr
Vehicle stalls several times after filling up the gas tank, mostly while idling. and, it is difficult to re-start after stalling. engine also runs "rougher" after fill-up. problem has gotten worse over the past few months. took 300c to local mechanic who says there is a problem with the gas tank overflow valve. solution is to replace gas tank or never completely fill it up. it seems that with all of these similar safety complaints, chrysler should find an alternative fix. *tr
After fueling my vehicle i drove about 300 feet away from the gas station, and my car completely stalled out without restarting for about 5 minutes. after getting the car to restart i drove for another 5 miles and the car stalled out again. after the second stall i let the car sit on the side of the road for about 10 minutes and turned it back on and drove away. this is not the first time i have experienced this issue, it has happened 2 other times before. i fear that if this keeps happening with no resolution from chrysler people may have to report something worse than just the car stalling. *tr
Engine stalls at slow speed and at idle also miss fires at speed after refueling gas tank. it continues until a gal. or so of fuel is consumed . *tr
After re-fueling vehicle, car stalled at 5 intersections. vehicle was difficult to restart. vehicle would not always go back into gear after restarting until several attempts were made. after burning off a few gallons of fuel on the highway, the vehicle no longer stalled/misfired. tank was not "topped-off" when filled, it was filled until the pump stopped automatically. stalling occurs every time vehicle is filled to full. *tr
After refueling the car it will begin to run, and idle, rough to the point that it stalls. this happens every time the car is refueled. most of the time it dies while idling, but has died while driving several times. the issue is worse if the car is refueled from the point that the low fuel light is on. it will die several times when refueled from this low level in the tank. the car has died while leaving a red light and getting as far as the intersection and having to try to restart it while in the middle of the intersection. *tr