Problems with 2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee ELECTRICAL SYSTEM

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part to do the recall repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was not made aware of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure.

Am on 4th new battery. when car sits for a short time, say 3-5 days, battery discharges and dies. gauges and lights flash on and off when attempting a charge. one time was locked out of car as entry fob would not unlock had to break into car since no power to car to open or operate locks. have had vehicle towed twice to dealer, each time nothing found wrong, but new battery installed twice under current warranty after new interstate battery (9 months old) supposedly was dead, interstate refunded all monies. this happens each time the car sits. i have left it at the dealer and they can not replicate the action or symptoms. they return the car until i get stuck somewhere with a dead battery. have had many issues with the roof skylite drains overflowing into the car even after it was repaired. questioned if the intake of water may be a symptom of the other battery problem. response from dealer was no. i would like to get the car to work normally again. all maintenance has been performed timely on vehicle since purchase and no accidents. *tr

I received a chrysler safety recall notice over a year and a half ago for faulty ignition switch for our 2005 jeep grand cherokee. i've contacted my local jeep dealer numerous times with the same story that the replacement part isn't available. my jeep is starting to experience issues with the ignition and the dealer tells me they can replace the ignition with a new one subject to the same recall issues at my expense non reimbursable since the part is not the new improved replacement ignition. this is very concerning as the vehicle is not safely reparable and experiencing issues. please advise ! *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that while driving approximately 45 mph, the vehicle stalled without warning. the vehicle did restart, however, the failure recurred on two other occasions. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system), however, the part to do the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure. the approximate failure mileage was 70,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while the vehicle was parked, it failed to start. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the failure recurred on numerous occasions. the vin was included in nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part needed to repair the vehicle was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the failure mileage was 113,000.

Back in february i got notice of the following recall and had it performed eventhough was not having the problem. safety recall n23/ nhtsa 13v-175. reprogram final drive controller module. 2005 - 2010. (wk) jeep grand cherokee. 2006 - 2010. (xk) jeep commander, after this recall was perfrom 4low would not work. we were able to reset the module by resetting a fuse but, this only lasted a few months. in june the 4low stopped working again. because we heard there was a new service bulletin out we took it back again for another flash. this time they were also wanting to replace the acutator motor, which was not available. other people who have had this part replaced have been unsucessful. on top of this my dealer was telling me i had to pay for this part and they are claiming it is not tied to the n23 recall. we have not paid to have this part replaced because i don't feel i should have to pay for something that is chryslers doing. it is clear that the software updates have caused these issues to arise and chrylser is not owning up to it. i feel nhtsa needs to inforce that when a recall is made it truely needs to be done and the fix really works. if issues arise with a recall nhtsa needs to make sure the company makes it right.the chrysler customer care center is a joke. no one can answer your questions, concerns and calls are not return. making us go back and forth for updates that continue to not fix the real problem and making us replace parts that don't fix the problem is not the right solution. it forces consumers to not have recalls performed. nhtsa needs make chrylser answer and fix this correctly. a vehicle that cannot go into 4low or neutral is just as unsafe! *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part needed to perform the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was notified of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. every time the vehicle was started, a loud tapping noise emitted from the dashboard. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) and stated that the parts needed for the recall repair were not available. the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the repair. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure. the failure mileage was 106,000.

Tl*the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part to do the repair was unavailable. the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the contact did not experience a failure.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving 50 mph, the vehicle lost power and all the lights on the instrument cluster illuminated. in addition, the contact stated that the head lamps functioned intermittently. the vehicle was taken to an independent mechanic, but was not diagnosed or repaired. the vin was included in nhtsa campaign number: 14v380000 (electrical system) however, the part needed to repair the vehicle was unavailable. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the failure mileage was 120,000.

Tl* the contact owns 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated while driving approximately 35 mph, the engine stalled without warning. the vehicle restarted but the failure recurred multiple times. also, the contact stated that multiple attempts were required in order to start the vehicle on other occasions. the vehicle was taken to an independent mechanic for a diagnosis and the technician stated that the shells on the battery were dead. as a result, the battery had to be replaced. the failure recurred multiple times. the contact received a notification for recall nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) and stated that the parts were unavailable. the dealer was uncertain when the parts would become available to service the vehicle under the recall. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the approximate failure mileage was 36,132.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that the vehicle failed to start and the instrument panel illuminated. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part needed to do the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the failure mileage was 125,000.

Horn blows for no reason , at any time . blows when drive a 60 miles an hour , just setting in driveway . have taken it to dealer , still have same problem . it's a safety problem , because people think i am blowing at them and mad and wont fight . need a fix for this problem . *tr

2005 jeep grand cherokee electrical issue observed on various occasions since taking ownership of the vehicle. while driving all lights and warning indicators will come on at once. the gauges will fluctuate sporadically. the entire dash will begin to flicker on and off. this also involves the headlights. the headlights will flicker on and off while driving corresponding to the flickering of the dash. extended warranty was purchased with this vehicle. took it back to the dealership. tech drove it for a week and said that they could not duplicate the problem. was told to "keep an eye on it". issue has continued. but dealership unable to do anything if problem can't be duplicated when they have it. very concerned about the safety of this vehicle! *tr

I have a 2005 jeep grand cherokee, took in in my dealer in aug, 2013 for a safety recall (n23). first time i tried to shift it into neutral, it flashed a "service 4wd system", and would not shift into either neutral or 4low. jeep forum, with 70 pages and hundreds of comments on this problem, looks like the recall software update is the problem and chrysler has not yet owned up the issue. meanwhile, i cannot use my vehicle as intended. my dealer says i need a $500 part, but others have had that replaced and still have the same problem. there are about 2,000 transfer case actuator motors on back order to correct this problem; however, many who have had this part replaced still have the same problem. the new part is not fixing the issue, jeep needs to replace the final drive control module and the transfer case actuator motor. *tr

Dash lights flicker and vehicle routinely and randomly will not start. we have been stranded at least 2 dozen times. 2 dealers and an independent mechanic could not locate the problem. battery, starter, starter relay and key fob's replaced. vehicle was taken to dealer in nov 2014 and now on may 11, 2015 ignition switch recall still has not been performed due to lack of parts.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 (electrical system , power train) and had the recall remedy performed on the vehicle however, the transfer case actuator failed shortly after the repair. as a result, the vehicle would not engage in four-wheel drive. the vehicle was taken to the dealer where it was diagnosed that the transfer case actuator needed to be replaced. the vehicle was not repaired. the dealer informed the contact that the remedy part was on back order. the manufacturer was made aware of the problem. the approximate failure mileage was 185,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that while parked, the vehicle was not able to start and a clicking sound could be heard. the vehicle was towed to an independent mechanic, where the relay switch was changed before the vehicle could start. the failure recurred intermittently. the vehicle was towed to the dealer but was not diagnosed or repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000(electrical system) however, the recall part needed was not available. the contact stated that the manufacturer had exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the issue. the failure mileage was 33,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving at 65 mph, the vehicle stalled without warning. the vehicle was able to restart. the contact received nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part needed to do the repair was unavailable. the vehicle was taken to the dealer. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure. the failure mileage was 65,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that the vehicle intermittently stalled without warning. the contact stated that nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) exceeded a reasonable amount of time for repair. the dealer stated that parts were not available for repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the failure mileage was 90,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part to do the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was made aware of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure. updated 1/12/2016 *cn updated 02/23/16*jb

Tl*the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that while driving at various speeds, the brake pedal was depressed and remained depressed. the contact had to depress the brake pedal repeatedly before it released in order to move the vehicle forward. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the failure recurred on numerous occasions. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part needed to repairer the vehicle was unavailable. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the failure mileage was unknown. updated 4/7/15*cn the consumer stated the vehicle stalled several times. updated 04/14/15*jb

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving at 60 mph, the vehicle lost all power and stalled without warning. the contact was able to restart the vehicle and various warning lights on the instrument panel illuminated and the vehicle began to jerk. the vehicle was taken to an independent mechanic. the technician diagnosed that the ignition module failed. the vehicle was not repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the repair part needed was not available. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the failure mileage was 134,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving 35 mph, the entire instrument panel illuminated and the vehicle stalled. the contact was able to restart the vehicle. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the contact received a recall notice for nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) and believed that the failure was related to the recall. the approximate failure mileage was 190,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received a recall notification for nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) and stated that the part needed was unavailable to perform the recall repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure. updated 6/11/15*cn

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that the vehicle stalled numerous times. the failure progressed without warning. the contact waited for over a year on the part to become available to have the vehicle repaired according to nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system). the vehicle was able to restart each time the failure recurred. the authorized dealer was contacted several times, but the contact was unable to schedule an appointment. the manufacturer was notified of the failure and was unable to determine a reasonable timeframe to schedule the recall repair. the failure mileage was approximately 22,000. updated 03/30/15*lj updated 10/21/2015*js

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving various speeds, all of the warning lights illuminated on the instrument panel and the vehicle hesitated to accelerate. the contact mentioned that the accelerator pedal had to be depressed with force in order to keep the vehicle moving. the failure recurred on several occasions. the vehicle was taken to the dealer who diagnosed that the shifter module failed. the vehicle was repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part needed to do the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was not made aware of the issue. the approximate failure mileage was 95,992.

While departing philadelphia airport , entering ramp to access interstate 95, the vehicle lost all power, engine, power steering and brakes would not work. head lights were still functioning. we physically pushed the vehicle off the highway, so other drivers and municipal bus drivers would stop screaming at us. the vehicle would not start. after calling the police and a tow truck, about 30 minutes later , the vehicle started. we had the vehicle towed to our home 100 miles away in new jersey. the vehicle would start and remain running for about 15 minutes, then would shut down again, same issues. several sensor codes came up on a readout but nothing has been done to the vehicle. at this point it is functioning, but we are afraid to drive the vehicle. any help or recall info on this matter would be greatly appreciated. *tr

After we had the following recall done. report receipt date: may 07, 2013 nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 component(s): electrical system , power train the vehicle has failed to be put into 4 wd neutral or visa versa, not allowed to be put into drive. we tow behind my motorhome. it happened the first time we tried to tow it, it went into neutral but would not come back out easily. after ~1/2 hr of trying i was able to get it to go back into drive. i took it back to the dealer he could not find anything wrong. about 3 weeks later after pulling it behind the rv and then trying to put it back into neutral it would not go into neutral, took it to a different dealer who reran the flash on the final drive. it worked fine for about a month. no it has happened a 3rd time while my wife was on a trip, she cannot get it back into neutral. i have read of other people having the same problem after the recall, which indicates the recall is causing the problem. i doubt that the dealer will repair for free so i think the nhtsa should require the dealers to repair the problem as part of the original recall. *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system). however, the part needed was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was notified of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure.

This is in regards to chrysler's recall of ignition switches - p41. a notice that a safety recall was in effect was announced early summer of 2014 and since then chrysler keeps saying the part is unavailable. it's well over six months since the recall was announced. i have called chrysler 3 times and they cannot provide an answer to when the part will be available. my jeep continues to have ignition switch problems, while i drive two small children on a daily basis. it is unacceptable that chrysler knows about the dangerous switch problem and yet has done nothing to timely remedy the situation and make the part available to affected consumers. it is irresponsible that the government doesn't do more to pressure and fine chrysler for the lack of urgency being placed on this recall. *tr

While driving on the freeway, the vehicle suddenly shifted itself into 3rd gear. paddle shifting was inoperable and vehicle will up or down shift. error codes given are p0700, and p0406. problem seemed to resolve after restarting vehicle, but then shifts again after a couple of minutes. now vehicle stays in 3rd gear permanently. fluid levels ok, guessing it is electrical/computer related issue based on internet research. taking to dealer soon to have final drive controller new software installed based on recall #n23. hoping it is related to that issue. *tr

Jeep shudders during engagement /acceleration. ac evaporator condensate water causing shuddering in vehicle. vehicle appears to want to shut off at stop light, rpm's drop drastically and shudders at take off

I recently took my jeep into the dealer service center to remedy the last recall pertaining to the software flash of the final drive control module. the day before i took my jeep in i had used the 4 wheel drive low. my jeep showed no symptoms of the recall and had no proper incidents yet i decided to take it in to have the task completed to avoid any future problems. since the day i took it in (10/5/2013) i had not used my 4 wheel drive low until thanksgiving day. when i went to use it the transfer case did absolutely nothing and the message "service 4wd system" appeared on the dash. i have asked the dealership to take a look at it and have gotten nowhere expect to be treated rudely and have them extremely resistant to looking into the problem. without even looking at my vehicle they kept telling me that the issue i am experiencing had nothing to do with the flash as they claim the flash affected the transmission park position sensor. when i read the tab "n23" it precisely names the transfer case as the affected component. please help. please! *tr

After having safety recall n23 done to my jeep grand cherokee 5.7l i have since been locked out of 4-wheel low. the n23 safety recall for my vehicle has not worked as it has created another safety issue by me not having my 4-low in a state (colorado) that i use 4-low in for winter and for recreation use. i was almost trapped in the cold mountains due to not knowing the n23 recall deactivated my 4-low. not only if this a safety issue but my vehicles value has diminished greatly as now it's a 2wd vehicle. *tr

My car would not start and it is unknown as to the reason for why this is happening. the battery is fine, alternator and all tests are just fine. this is not the first time this has happened and this happens randomly with no reason (at hot or cold temps). the mechanics are unable to find a reason for this. there is no cranking when this happens but all lights both inside and out are working. need answers!! as i can no longer be stranded in different locations. *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee . the contact stated that nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 (electrical system , power train) had surpassed a reasonable time for repair. the dealer was contacted and stated that the part was not available for repair. the manufacturer was not contacted. the contact had not experienced a failure.

There has been many occasions upwards of 13 or 14 times where my vehicle will not start. my battery has a full charge, i have fuel in the tank it just wont start. the only way around this to get my vehicle to start is to do a hard reset and unhook the battery cable for 30 seconds and hook it back up then and only then will it start. then it will start the next 15 or so times and then i have the same problem it wont start. same deal, battery is great, fuel in the tank, just wont start.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that while driving at an unknown speed, the vehicle lost engine power. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the failure occurred continuously. the contact received a notice for nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part for repair was not available. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the approximate failure mileage was 80,000.

Upon driving my daughter to school my transmission would not leave 1st gear. rpm's would almost red line, i would let off the gas to let it shift and nothing, it stayed in 1st gear. well when i looked at the gauges, my lights for prndl were all lit up instead of just "d". boxes around every single letter. i proceeded to put the car in neutral and put it back in drive and still all 5 letters lit up and engine bogged down. it took several minutes for what like seemed forever for it to get into gear which was drive, i backed up traffic because i couldn't do the speed limit and had to use my hazard lights on the side of the road. this was my first occurrence, this has happened at least a dozen or more times since then to include yesterday jan 5 2015. every time i contact the dealer or ask on jeep owner website, i get " sorry sir the only recall listed is the ignition switch and we don't have a part for that." i checked the website and apparently my jeep had been serviced for the transmission back in 2010 at 70k miles but does not explain what they did. i also need to put in another complaint about the transmission. june of 2014 and still to this day the gear shift can be moved from "p" to any gear, and that is when no keys are in the ignition. i was working under the hood and my 4 year old son did just that and almost ran me over. i checked and the vehicle had no keys in it they were with me in my tool box because i didn't want him to do just that.

After dealer performed recall 13v175000, traction control is inoperative but no lights are illuminated to indicate the failure of the traction control system. also, shifting the transfer case is inoperative. no warning lights or informational messages are displayed to indicate the loss of functionality. dealer has cleared codes and replaced parts multiple times, but the problem remains. safety issues are: 1. driving in remote areas in low range, and being unable to shift into high range prevents driving on paved roads... which could leave a driver stranded. 2. failure of traction control system could result in loss of control, especially in winter. *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that the vehicle failed to lock when using the key fob. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system). the vehicle was taken to the dealer; however, the parts needed to do the repair were unavailable. the manufacturer was not notified of the failure. the approximate failure mileage was 130,000.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving various speeds, the accelerator pedal was depressed but the vehicle failed to accelerate and the rpms increased. the failure recurred on numerous occasions. the vehicle was taken to a dealer who diagnosed that the transmission needed to be replaced. the vehicle was not repaired. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the vehicle was previously repaired under nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 (electrical system, power train). the failure mileage was 180,000. update 01/15/16 ma the consumer stated he never had a problem with the transmission jumping from drive to third gear, until he took the vehicle to the dealer after receiving a recall notice. updated 01/27/16.*jb

While driving down the road, the rpm started floating and the jeep started hesitating like it was out of gas. it was happening every once in awhile, now it's constantly and it's getting horrible gas mileage. here recently, the interior lights on the ac/heat part have went out and the time part on the radio started lighting up like a heater and is extremely hot but the radio still plays. *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated that the vehicle was included in and repaired under nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 (electrical system, power train). after the recall repair, the service four wheel drive warning light illuminated. the vehicle was taken to the dealer for diagnosis where the technician stated that the transfer case motor failed and needed to be replaced. the contact performed the repair however, the transfer case motor failed approximately one month later. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure. the vehicle was not repaired. the approximate failure mileage was 56,420. updated 02/27/14*lj the consumer stated the transfer case motor was replaced 3 times.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part needed to perform the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure.

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system) however, the part needed to perform the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was not notified of the issue. the contact had not experienced a failure. ...updated 02/04/16 *bf updated 04/19/18*jb *cn

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. while driving at 35 mph, the steering wheel completely seized and the vehicle stalled. the contact was able to restart the vehicle. the failure recurred on numerous occasions. the vehicle was not diagnosed or repaired. the contact received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 14v438000 (electrical system); however, the part to do the repair was unavailable. the contact stated that the manufacturer exceeded a reasonable amount of time for the recall repair. the manufacturer was notified of the failure. the failure mileage was 86,000.

While driving my vehicle it just shut down without any warning and i had to guide it to the side of the road to restart it.thankfully i was driving in a neighborhood where i could do this, it did this a couple of times in one outing, now its every so often. so far it has not done it while i'm out on an interstate but i try to stay close to home til it can be fixed. plus when i have on my lights my dashboard lights blink on and off . then here recently the air bag light started flashing and a few days ago it stayed on and hasn't shut off. i've talked to the jeep dealership about this and they said that they don't have the parts to fix the recall item p41/ nhtsa 14v-438 and i'm liable for the airbag issue. from what i have read online all of these issues are connected. i received a letter on the recall a few months back but have not heard anything back on when i can get it fixed at the dealership. please advise on what steps i should take to get the parts for this recall so i can enjoy driving my vehicle again. thanks again *tr

Tl* the contact owns a 2005 jeep grand cherokee. the contact stated after the recall was done, the vehicle would not shift into neutral. the contact later received notification of nhtsa campaign number: 13v175000 (electrical system , power train) and had the recall remedy performed on the vehicle. the contact stated that the failure recurred several times after the recall repair and each time the remedy repair failed to correct the problem. the vehicle was taken to the dealer where the technician verified that the shift motor and control module were defective and needed to be replaced. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure. the vehicle was not repaired. the failure mileage was 80,000 and the current mileage was 90,200. updated 05/12/2014*lj updated 05/15/14 *tr