We have classified the 39 complaints from 2009 Volkswagen Jetta about ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING into the following categories.
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta. the contact noticed a fuel odor from the trunk area. the vehicle was taken to the dealer where it was diagnosed that the engine exhaust flap needed to be replaced. also, after getting the vehicle back from the dealer, the engine warning light illuminated. the vehicle was taken to the dealer and they stated that it was due to the engine exhaust flap failure. the vehicle was repaired. the manufacturer was made aware of the issue. the failure mileage was 136,000.
While driving on a 3 lane road my vehicle lost power and showed a warning message of "engine fault". it had about 50% power for approximately 30 seconds and died. the vehicle was towed to vw dealer and they report that it was the high pressure fuel pump failure with complete fuel system contamination. *tr
Check engine light and glow plug indicator light illuminate and engine goes into limp or safe mode. has happened twice and dealer cannot find problem. *tr
I was on the exit ramp of the interstate and the go to workshop warning came on along with the glow plug warning light. vehicle lost power, i was able to get to a side street and turned off vehicle, it restarted and seemed fine drove about 2 miles and stopped for a light, car stalled and warning lights came back on. car did not restart had push to side of road and tow home. towed to dealer first of week. found to be high pressure fuel pump failure of the diesel engine. this is the second one to go bad first one at 135380 miles and now at 228605 miles only 93225 miles on repair job. vw repaired the first one, replaced entire fuel system at no charge, do to faulty hpfp. even though this pump has less miles they will not help with repair cost. both times car died at a major intersection and had to be pushed to side of road. *tr
Car flashed engine malfunction, died soon after, will not start up again. *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta. the contact stated that while driving 70 mph, the malfunction engine warning light flashed on the dashboard as the vehicle stalled. the contact was able to move the vehicle to the side of the road. the contact towed the vehicle to a dealer. the dealer stated that the entire fuel system needed to be replaced due to metal flakes entering the fuel system when the fuel pump malfunctioned. the failure mileage was 115,986. updated 11/14/12*lj updated 11/15/12
I was going down the road at approximately 45 mph, the engine lost power and stalled. i was able to pull to the side of the road, then have it towed. my spouse is an engine machinist, and after talking to a volkswagen dealership, and taking the car apart, found metal shavings throughout the fuel system. so far, he has spent $3200 for parts which has depleted our saving account. he is self employed and i work part time and part time student, paying $400 a month for a car we thought would be safe, dependable and economical! this is clearly a safety issue, documented for over 2 years with no responsibility taken by vw, who has falsely denied any ongoing issue of this sort. fortunately, my husband can do the labor, but people are spending $8,000 to $10,000 to get this vw problem fixed, and in some cases has happened again. this high pressure fuel system is faulty and unsafe. vw needs to take responsibility for their product to ensure customer safety on the roadways. *tr
2009 volkswagen jetta tdi while traveling interstate 81 in ny vehicle just stalled, glow plug and "engine fail workshop" message appeared. coasted to side of road cycle key off and on, back to normal. back to 65 mph, same thing. headed home at 50 mph for approx 50 miles and then occurred again on a hill. would not restart, coasted back into a driveway, restarted drove at 20 mph coasted into a local restaurant after another stall. aaa towed to the dealership. after three days they have " no idea" what the prob. was and returned my car to me. they could not get it to do it again. so i am waiting to be stranded again....... *tr
My 2009 vw jetta tdi had the engine light come on. the dealer said it was an 048 code for exhaust flap failure. this is a key part of the emission control. they told me it would cost $655 to replace. researching the internet, this is a growing problem with the jetta. pages and pages on the internet complained about the problem.some dealers are replacing it under the federally mandated 80,000 emissions warranty. others are not. it explicitly is covered in california and new york, where i purchased my car. i also discovered on the internet that this part is cleanable, which is much less cost than replacing. i understand this is under investigation by your organization. this early failure should be covered by the warranty but is not being implemented. *tr
Vehicle stopped running at highway speed. after tow and refueling car failed to start and run. taken to dealer for service and informed that high pressure fuel pump was defective/had failed. this problem seems to be more than common for these tdi vehicles. volkswagen of america refuses to offer assistance with the matter and will not acknowledge that these pumps are an issue. *tr
Vehicle will not start on first 4-6 attempts after a cold snap and subsequent warm weather. issue points to water building up in intercooler hoses. vw has tsb posted but may not fully resolve issue. 21 11 01 / 2025464 dated may 24, 2011, titled "frozen charge air cooler ? engine will not start". it calls for installing a 1k0-198-803-b cold weather intercooler kit. a lot of internet discussion on this: http://forums.tdiclub.com/showthread.php?t=266863. date of no start: 25 dec 2011 (wonderful christmas gift!) location: central new york (utica area) mileage: ~42000 significant weather before no start: some very light snow... low of 19f, high of 39f... see http://www.wunderground.com/history/...q_statename=na took to dealer: not that day... had a state inspection in charlotte, nc scheduled for later that week at vw of south charlotte: they found zero issues when i mentioned the problem (no codes, etc.) and didn't charge me anything for "checking it out". comments: this was the first no-start since buying the jetta in 12/2008. car did have weird "phantom fuel loss" issue since initial in-service date... after 6 visits to 2 different dealers complaining of issue it was finally addressed in an ecu update in late winter/early spring of 2011. date of no start: 5 jan 2012 location: philadelphia, pa mileage: 44250 significant weather before no start: cold snap the night before (mid teens f) then mean of mid 30's this day... happened in morning of 5th when it was still cold from night before. see: http://www.wunderground.com/history/...lyhistory.html took to dealer: not that day, but the day after. no faults found after a $50 diagnostics check since "car was not in warranty". dealer (fred beans vw of devon, pa) wants to have it overnight after a similar cold snap.. will provide loaner. *tr
Vehicle abruptly lost power, no control over acceleration, had to pull off of interstate to shoulder of road. car restarted fine. taking to vw dealer for evaluation. *tr
Car stalled again after new exhausted flap was installed (1ko-253-691-e ) . as per other older complaint odi # 10476791.vw paid $646 for new part but refused to pay labor $183.93. now on the new exhaust flapper they gave me a new part free,but it cost me $529.63 for new sensors along with labor for the install. per the auto shop there has been a lot of changes in this part . the customer is engineering this part for vw. *tr
My car caught fire today.car was parked while i was at the doctors, girl came into the office asked if anyone had a white car and that it was on fire. we called 911. the fire department put out the fire. yesterday i received a recall notice and i called the dealership today to set up a date to get it fixed. i asked if it was safe to drive. i guess it wasn't. the fire dept. thinks it might be electrical but the recall was for fuel injectors. the dealership sent out a flatbed to tow the car back to there garage. not sure how it will turn out. *kb
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta. the contact stated that the vehicle stalled several times without warning. the vehicle would jerk stall and no warning lights would illuminate. the vehicle was taken to an authorized dealer for inspection, but was not repaired. the failure mileage was 14,000 and the current mileage was 15,000. updated 02/15/12*lj the dealer stated the stalling problem was due to not letting the glow plug warm-up. updated 02/22/12 updated evoq 06/26/12
High pressure fuel pump failure in tdi diesel causing catastrophic damage to major engine components including common rail, injectors , fuel tank etc... appears to be manufacturers defect. merely replacing will not solve problem without assurance that new design has been developed and utilized. *tr
While slowing down for a traffic light on a busy avenue the car stalled and shut down the engine light was recently on and i took this car to be checked by dealer no problems were seen. *tr
As my wife was driving towards a stop sign at a relatively slow speed, the vehicle check engine light came on and then the car died. as she started to roll backwards, she stopped the car and waited for the other traffic to clear. she was able to restart the car and drive it home as she was less than a mile away. after i returned home, i started the car and noticed the check engine light. at that point the car seemed fine. i went to autozone to see if they could download the error codes that might provide some insight into what component was causing the problem. they could not do that according to ca law. i purchased a obdii code reader and discovered code p0191 and p0087, both relating to the fuel system. p0191 indicated the fuel rail pressure sensor a circuit range / performance. the p0087 indicated the fuel rail / system pressure too low. while researching these codes on the internet i discovered a huge amount of information relating to this issue. i am thankful my wife was not in a huge amount of traffic as she could have been in an accident as a result of the car shutting down without warning. this has been going on with the tdi diesel engine since 2009. why has there been no recall to fix what i believe is a defective or inferior fuel pump. in the many work orders i have read vw in many cases blamed bad fuel (gas in the diesel tank) as the problem. i have written documentation for every gallon of fuel that has been put in this car since it was new. the car has had all scheduled maintenance completed since the car was new. if this is a known problem why wasn't a recall issued like they did with the dsg transmission. is this denial on vw's part so they don't get a bunch of bad press? *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta. the contact was driving 25 mph during rainy weather when the vehicle stalled without warning. the contact was able to pull to the side of the road and had the vehicle towed to a dealer. the dealer ran a diagnostic test and but did not show any defect codes. the contact took the vehicle to another dealer where the dealer found the defect and advised that a faulty sensor caused the vehicle to stall. the dealer replaced the sensor but did not explain to the contact how the sensor caused the failure. the failure mileage was 30,000. updated 11/25/11 *bf updated 11/30/11
This concerns a 2009 vw jetta tdi (clean diesel version). car dashboard put out warning message "engine malfunction" then car began to sputter and lose power. electronic dashboard showed there was plenty of diesel gas in the tank (enough to continue driving 250 miles). (the car had been filled up with diesel gasoline on the day before, friday, and driven on a short trip that saturday during the day hours; driver had filled up at that station regularly across the last 2 years since the car was purchased.) electronic dashboard also showed all other systems functioning regarding battery, temperature sensor, etc. driver was on busy city avenue in fullerton, california traveling at about 40 mph when sputtering began. car power slowly decreased to about 20 mph, but fortunately driver was able to make it through several green lights to a commercial area. fortunately saturday night traffic was not heavy, so a lane change to the right was possible without affecting other drivers who wished to go at a faster speed. car slowed down to about 5 mph as driver maneuvered car for the last 500 feet into a gasoline station parking lot. car engine came to a complete stop. this was less than 5 minutes after the first "engine malfunction" warning on the electronic dashboard. attempts to restart the engine were unsuccessful; a clicking sound in the ignition was heard. car engine subsequently would not turn over and had to be towed saturday night. *tr
30 sept 2011. while sitting at an intersection we noticed a rattling sound coming from our 2009 jetta tdi. could also feel a slight vibration through the shift lever and steering wheel. initial thought was an a/c clutch issue due to a squealing sound that started. proceeded through the intersection and accelerated to approximately 30 mph when the "engine fault workshop" light came on and the sound became very loud. we immediately pulled into a parking lot to investigate. loud metallic noises appeared to be internal to the engine not external. shut the car off and it would not restart. car was towed to mossy vw (classic volkswagen) in escondido, ca at closing time and will be troubleshoot in the morning. 50,000 miles on the car. great dealer so far, service stayed late to assist and ensured we had transportation home. a quick online search revealed hpfp failures for 2009 vw tdi cars are becoming more common and unfortunately the manufacturer is not acknowledging and some dealers are blaming on fuel contamination with unleaded gas. owners are reporting $10,000 repair bills. we have our diesel fuel receipt from yesterday, 29 sep 2011, confirming correct fuel was used. *tr
Flashing glow plug warning light and loss of power while going 70 mph on turnpike. car went into "limp mode" allowing exit from turnpike. car traveled several blocks then stalled at stop light and would not start. car was towed to vw dealer and diagnosed with failed high pressure fuel pump and metal particles contaminating diesel fuel. dealer to replace entire fuel system. *tr
Was told by vw that my engine had failed. this is less than 1 year after my hpfp "exploded" and my entire fuel delivery system was replaced due to contamination. *tt
Car stuttered and then stalled. engine wouldn't restart. driving 35mph in residential area. *kb
The car stalled while i was driving down amsterdam ave in new york, ny. the engine puttered then a massive amount of smoke started coming from the exhaust. the smell was unbearable. i took it to two different mechanics and both stated that there was gasoline coming from the exhaust there could have been an explosion. i am glad that there was no explosion because i was driving my family home. *kb
2009 volkswagen jetta tdi at 53,000 miles my radiator went out due to a design flaw were a clamp rubbed a hole in the radiator. vw would not cover under factory warranty, at 68,000 miles the alignment went out in the automobile, and finnally at 72,000 miles i noticed my transmission making a hard shift and a delay shift when taking off, i inquired about it twice at the dealer ship and was advise nothing was wrong. then at 94,000 miles i started hearing a loud noise from my motor it is the dual mass cluch flywheel has gone out. the dealership wants $3000.00 to fix. i called vw of america, the vp i talked to, said just because the part was recalled in australia and canada it doesn't mean anything to them. *tt
First incident in july 2011 but same ongoing issue and at the dealership at least 8 times in 11 months. currently at the dealership again for almost 3 weeks now. its always the same "symptoms" but always told its another problem..... as follows: -sputters and jerks -exhaust or gas fumes overcome the car -engine revs but the car wont move, then jolts forward. -stalls when trying to start, it jerks violently making a putting noise as if it can't get fuel then dies. -there's a beeping noise coming from something in the engine when it stalls that no one seems to know what it is. i have replaced: -intake manifold -all fuel sensors -low pressure fuel pump -high pressure fuel pump -melted fuses with unknown cause -two batteries -other smaller items related to fuel system. *jb
Random engine failure while car is in gear, engine light comes on and vw error code says exhaust flap malfunction. *tr
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta tdi. the contact was driving 30 mph when the vehicle stalled without any warning. the vehicle was taken to the dealer where the contact was awaiting diagnostics of the failure. the manufacturer was made aware of the failure but provided no further assistance. the vehicle was not repaired. the failure mileage was 18,000 and the current mileage was 20,000.
My 2009 jetta tdi engine started running rough when i pushed the clutch in while turning into a parking lot 3 weeks ago. i coasted to a parking spot and turned off the ignition. i started the car back up immediately to see if it was going to be ok and it sounded good so i shut it off. when i returned about 45 minutes later, the car started but sounded like it was running on only one or two cylinders and then died. i called a tow truck and it would not start at all when he arrived. the dealer asked if i had ever run gasoline through it. i said 'no, why would i do that?' he said that the entire fuel system needed to be replaced and that vw would pay for this 'one time' even though the warranty has run out. well, if they are at fault this time, they will be at fault the next time too. my concern is the next time. i drive on a 70 mph interstate 90 miles round trip to work 5 days a week. what are the chances that i will be lucky enough that it did not happen in traffic at that speed the first time and just where will i be when it happens again? if they are replacing this shredded high pressure fuel pump with the same model made of the same materials, it will happen again. is there ethanol being put into diesel in this country? what about the additives to diesel that are necessary for lubricity that are put in by the different companies? is one or more types of these the culprit? this problem is all over the internet and i hope that vw can come up with a permanent solution before someone is seriously injured - if it hasn't happened already. meanwhile - still waiting for my car to be returned to me.
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta sportwagen tdi. the contact stated while driving 75 mph, he briefly lost engine power. there were no warning lights illuminated and after pumping the accelerator pedal, the engine resumed power. the dealer was not contacted. the manufacturer was contacted and offered no assistance. no repairs were made to the vehicle. the failure mileage was 83,500.
Today is april 2, 2011. i was driving my 2009 jetta tdi on the highway where my engine died on me right before my coil light went off while doing 60+ miles. i had my car towed to the vw dealership in stratford ct. while waiting i started to look up any information on issues related to mine because my car turned only 2 years old march 15 2011. i had heard on the radio on car talk that tdi were shutting down on the highways and that it was being looked into by the nhtsa. i also read dozens of other stories online with related issues which in the end cost them a few thousand to ten thousand to fix on relatively new car. i have read it is due to hpfp needing to be replaced which was damaged when fueled up with incorrect fuel. basically vw is saying that metal particulates are in the fuel filters and system due to putting gas instead of diesel. they are telling this supposed catch all to everyone with this issue. i have never put anything other than diesel into my car. the warranty is only good up to 50k. i am at 54k. this is an on going issue for jetta tdi owners and will continue to be an issue when the mileage climbs. this is also a safety issue that i take personally due to a child being in the car at the time of the break down in the middle of the highway. i wanted to write in concern for my own issues with this and other ct jetta tdi owners of ct/usa. i don't know if you can help but i wanted to try. thank you very much for your time. *tr
Engine abruptly stalled entering large multi-lane intersection, as engine repair light came on. suddenly inoperative power train on the vehicle without any prior warning. tdi diesel powered vehicle. towed to dealership and diagnosed with hpfp (fuel pump) & fuel system failure.
Tl* the contact owns a 2009 volkswagen jetta tdi. the contact stated that while driving 35 mph, the engine warning light illuminated and the vehicle began to lose power. the vehicle then began jerking abnormally before stalling. the vehicle was towed to the dealer who was unable to duplicate the failure. the manufacturer was not contacted. the vehicle was not repaired. the failure and current mileage was 70,000.
On march 7, 2011 our volkswagen jetta tdi model year 2009 stalled abruptly while driving at low speed. this was a first occurence. *tr
When starting to move the car such as at a stop sign or at an intersection, when putting the accelerator pedal down to start the vehicle moving, the whole car almost stalls as engine power disappears for a terrifying few seconds. *tr this is very dangerous because you pull out into traffic and expect the car will move forward and not stall. i went onto a vw forum and learned that this is a common problem for vw. *tr
Glow plug indicator symbol flashing on dashboard. i had just left my house so i decided to drive around the block to get back to my house to check on the symbol. within one block the car lost power, the glow plug indicator came back on (flashing) as did the engine warning symbol. my car could now only clunk forward at about 5 mph. i made it over to the curbside, grabbed my manual, and walked home. i called the vw dealer and he said that he'd seen a couple of cases like this and that the car would have to be towed in." i had it towed to dealership (this was a saturday). on monday i heard that there was a problem with the fuel pump (hpfp) and that the whole fuel system would have to be replaced. luckily, i was still under warranty. it's a very expensive repair. more luckily, this power failure did not happen on the freeway, which is where i was heading. i could have been killed. please see this string of complaints about the fuel pump failure - which so far vw is denying is a problem: http://www.tdi-issues.com/hpfp-cases-tac68/. also, please pursue this as a safety issue and consider a recall. there has been no guarantee from vw that this repair will not stop the problem from occurring again. when my car is repaired, i will still feel unsafe, since vw will not admit the part was faulty and will not clarify that they have replaced the hpfp with a new, improved version.
Egr valve failure on 2009 volkswagen sportwagen tdi - at 38000 miles the emissions check engine light came on in my car, and the mechanic diagnosed it as an egr valve problem. this is a required part of the emissions control system, and volkswagen has declined to offer a fix for it. *tr
2009 tdi jetta exhaust flap failure just after warranty expiration. the local dealer indicated this is a common problem prior to the redesign on the exhaust flap (change from aluminum to stainless steel). dealer wants $600.00 to replace the part. upon inspection of the flap, the mechanics of the flap (not the motor or sensor portion), but the flap itself have bound up. numerous accounts of this issue were found on-line. *tr
Was driving on residential street, approximately 25-30 mph, and car just lost power and stalled. after a few minutes it could start again - but the vehicle would not move, even if gas was pushed down. after a week at the dealership - they said it was the throttle. my car would not start before (after only having the car for approximately 7 months and approximately 2000 miles) - and after having it towed to the dealer, they just said the fuel was gelling. but they did do a computer upgrade and said there "particles in the fuel line" that they cleaned out and said i may have gotten "bad fuel". 1 week after my 40000 mile routine maintenance check - my glow plug light went on and i had to have a sensor replaced.
(2009 vw jetta tdi) engine stalls when trying to take off from stop. has happened a total of four times, car only has 32,000 miles. *tr
Car is 2009 volkswagen jetta tdi 2.0l common rail inter cooled turbo diesel.l issue occurs after driving in below freezing weather, and attempting to restart after weather has gone above freezing (such as driving to work in freezing weather, temps warm up during the day, occurs on attempt to drive home). vehicle will start, then die after a very brief run of 5 seconds or less. restarts will range to very long cranking before a very rough run, or no cranking with all lights an equipment going out due to very high amp draw on starter motor. water and oil is noted dripping from the inter cooler piping as it leads to the engines intake. piping removed to allow some water to drain out. after several attempts of 1 revolution at a time, car will start to turn more and more if a pause of 30 seconds between attempts is allowed. suspected water sucked into combustion chamber and hydro-locking engine. water is suspected to seep past the piston rings into the crankcase while pausing between start attempts. this is proven with frothy moisture on the oil fill cap after each incident. suspected issue is moisture from egr system goes into intake air, and is freezing in the inter cooler in freezing weather. when weather warms up while the car is off, the water will pool in the inter cooler piping. upon attempted restart, water is sucked into the engine causing anywhere from some rough stumbling to full hydro-lock. incident has happened 6+ times in varying severity. issue is known to happen to co-workers car with the same turbo diesel engine on the same day. no codes thrown for any occurrence via obd tester. one time, the glow plug light flashed several times. *tr
2009 vw jetta. consumer states problem with engine line *tgw the consumer stated the engine light illuminated and the vehicle stalled. *jb
While driving to work, the engine malfunction dashboard light illuminated while making a left turn, traveling about 20 mph, with slightly less than 1/2 tank fuel from the same filling. the left turn where the malfunction occurred was the last 1/2 mile of my ~15 mile commute to work. immediately after observing the malfunction light, i could hear a metal-on-metal grinding sound coming from under the hood. the engine did not stop running though the grinding noise persisted for the remaining 1/2 mile of my commute. after turning the car off in the parking lot, i contacted my vw dealer and informed them of the problem. they recommended i try driving the car to the dealer for service, which is about 15.5 miles from my workplace. i stayed at work for the next 3 hours, and around midday set off to drive the car to the vw dealer. the car started, but the grinding noise persisted and the engine malfunction light illuminated within 1 minute of starting. at the same intersection where the problem had originally started, 1/2 mile from work, i was forced to stop at a red light. while stopped, the engine operation became very rough and the engine stopped running. i was able to restart and lightly accelerate when the light turned green, but the car stalled after about 10 seconds, though i had enough momentum to get out and push the car into a parking lot. i had the car towed to the vw dealer. the dealer reported that they found shards of metal throughout the fuel system, especially in the fuel pump. they quoted me vw's statement about gasoline contamination of diesel fuel, and implied that i may have incorrectly fueled the car. however, they took a fuel sample from my tank and reported that it was normal diesel with no signs of contamination. they agreed to replace the entire fuel system. the car has run normally since repairing.
I was driving my car when suddenly the engine quit,and all error messages came up. it was right in front of a busy intersection. i was unable to restart when tried at least 3 times. i waited about 5 minutes and then i was able to start. the service did not find anything wrong. i am worried that it can happen again and i will be not as lucky as this time to avoid someone hitting me from the back as the car unexpectedly just stops. *tr
Car stalled while accelerator was pressed. stall lasted about 3 seconds. stalling occurs about once a month. *tr
I recently purchased a 2009 volkswagen jetta tdi diesel car with a 6 speed manual transmission and 20,000 miles. i have notice that the car is extremely easy to stall when attempting to accelerate in first and second gears. it seems the injection timing may be too far advanced. i have driven lots of similar older model diesel cars in europe and elsewhere without any such problems. i do not know what to do to correct the problem. i have noticed that you must speed up significantly in first gear before shifting to second. the engine seems to be unable to lug at a low rpms. *tr
We have had this car for less than two months. the day before we traveled about 45 minutes away and used the highway. the car was fine. the next day, when traveling on the highway at about 70mph our 2009 jetta sportwagen tdi suddenly lost power about 30 to 40 minutes into the trip. the gas pedal did not respond to being pressed. our vehicle was slowing down. it was like the car died and we were coasting. five to ten seconds later it was like nothing happened. the car resumed power. it has not happened again. we took it to the dealer and they said they couldn't find anything wrong with it. *tr
Engine dies while at speed, especially when making a sharp turn at intersection. has occurred roughly 6 times in 7000 miles. engine also routinely "hiccups" or momentarily dies at about 1800 rpm under light load. nothing has been done to address the problem. *tr
My 2009 jetta sportswagon tdi has stalled several occasions rounding corners as i downshift from a higher gear to a lower gear. i generally run the vehicle around 1700-1800 rpm and as i make the turn around the corner to slow down i am in the process of downshifting and the car stalls out while the clutch is engaged. this has happened randomly 4 times to me. the first time i thought i might have accidentally shift into a higher gear and stalled the engine, but since it has repeatedly happened and since i have owned a standard transmission vehicle since 1986, and have been driving standard vehicles since 1980 i have to question that it is something else besides my ability to drive. *tr