Ac on the driver side warm air passenger side cold air then nothing. this started while driving on the highway august 3rd 2018 and stopped working august 6th 2018
The ac compressor and condenser are both leaking. one dealership tried to tell me they were leaking because a rock hit it and caused the damage, and it costs $600 to fix. but upon proper diagnosis from another dealership, they did tell me both the compressor and condenser are leaking, and it was not caused by road hazard damage. these products have known issues that people have listed online. my car is out of warranty, so the dealership had to file a claim through good will. they said they were willing to pay 50/50, which leaves me to pay $842 before taxes to get this issue fixed. there needs to be a better solution. this is unsafe that all of these cars having leaking condensers and compressors and it is a scam to have the customer pay anything to fix an issue like this. this is extremely unsafe because when it is hot weather or raining and then it gets cold the windshield fogs up and doesn't allow you to see without having the air on. the ac helps to eliminate any visibility issues when the weather changes. currently my windshield keeps fogging up due to not having the ac, especially when another car is coming towards me with their headlights, my windshield blinds me. this is extremely unsafe and will cause an accident. if someone can please help me by looking into this issue and possible posting a safety recall on these products, i would truly appreciate it. i already spoke to corporate honda and they don't seem to care and they say that they don't put out their own recalls. but this is a serious issue that is not okay, and i should not have to pay anything to have a faulty system fixed, when i bought the car this way. i noticed this issue after the car was already out of warranty, it didn't happen on one specific day, it is an ongoing issue.
My car was parked and i tried to turn my car on and i stepped on my foot brake it felt real stiff than i attempted to push the start button but my car failed to start. several error codes popped up on my dashboard. (brake system problem, brake hold system problem, power stearing system (eps) problem vehicle stability assisst (vsa) peonlem, hill start assisst problem, electric parking brake problem, emissions problem.
Vehicle was involved in a front end/side collision. when told by collision shop the vehicle was finished and upon coming in to pick up the vehicle, obvious structural damage remained untouched, and unrepaired engine damage was obvious. collision shop and insurance company insisted vehicle repairs were complete and fought me to take the vehicle to the honda dealership for diagnostic. when the vehicle was finally taken, the check engine light was on and a dtc code was thron. additional issues with the integrity of the vehicle post collision were noted and both collision shop and insurance company refuse to acknowledge safety issues and repair the vehicle to safety standards. neither the collision shop nor the insurance company is familiar with the new 2016 civic body, diagnostics, crash zones, and honda position statements issued for the particular model. the vehicle was specifically purchased for a newly licensed driver, with safety being the top priority. the vehicle is no longer safe and it would be tragic to have another accident, where the other driver is at fault, with a much worse outcome because the integrity of this this vehicle is compromised due to inadequate repair. unfortunately i cannot load all the repair photos, but the hood is not fitted, the pillars are buckled, the foot rockers/ floor pan is loose.
The front wheels are going to fall off..throwing codes for stability malfunction assist, electric parking brake, electric power steering..i have been treated awful by 3 honda dealership and i refuse to pay for this vehicle that i'm going to die in..brush guard fell down being held with bailing twine
Randomly heard a pop, and the ac stopped working. took car to a dealership that tried to tell me it was road hazard damage. after leaving honda i called back to inquire more information, honda refused to show me the issue but told me they would charge me $200 for a diagnosis fee. something seemed wrong. checked online and saw thousands of complaints for the same issue. called honda corporate and was told to take it for a second opinion elsewhere. they knew about the ac issues and said it would be covered under warranty except my car is out of warranty because of high mileage. without the ac the defogger doesn't work. this is extremely unsafe in certain weather conditions. not sure how to get honda to recall this but it seems they have a history of ac units not working properly in cars. if someone dies on the roadway because of a visibility issue, honda will have a major lawsuit ahead of them. help us honda owners get the recall we deserve so we can safely drive the cars we spent so much money on. this is unsafe and not okay!
Issues: under splash / guard falling down - yonkers honda service parts state it is physical damage for the under splash guard to fall down and not possibly the screws getting loose. yonker service parts said it was normal wear and tear and that i must of went over something that pulled down the under guard. i now have 11,900 miles and car under 2 years old. initially i had to go to a local dealer to not replace but to put screws in, so i could go to my honda service to inspect why this happened on a new car. i was only charged $71 to put screws in. all parts were still intact after splash dropped and i had to drive to get my service to a place closer home because dragging my under guards would mean greater damage. by the time i made it to honda service, the splash dropped again and honda stated i needed to replace the underguards that were still in tact but a little bent from dragging. they said it was external physical damage and not a defect and then quoted me $400 and put ties up so i can drive the car. i looked up the parts at a honda parts service dealer and the parts i am quoted are way more than what i noticed for the market. four months into having my car, all 4 car windows come halfway down after exiting the car and pressing down the lock with remote. no information on why this is happening in the honda manual. honda sevice auto parts advisor stated this is normal and there was nothing to do. photos show initial fall of under splash in january
Car has 19800 miles. this monday will be the 4th time i will be at dealer because the a/c is once again blowing warm air. after the 3rd time i switched dealers. they replaced the lines and that was short lived. just before the warranty ended i purchased an extended warranty for $1500. i live in florida and this has been a nightmare. each time it takes 3.5 hrs. to run a diagnostic. corporate supposedly knows of the problems. nothing is being done. do a search on google on this car with a/c problems and there are many, many complaints
The computer system shuts down when battery dies and cant get into car i was locked out of my car a few times til i popped trunk and went thru the back to get into my car and battery life leaves quickly because of all the bluetooth use and other care hazards. so iam left with a black monitor screen not able to operate my system
Car is only one yr old, not even 33,000 miles air conditioner blowing hot air, many of my friends have same problem. honda won't honor warranty. wants to charge over $500.00 to start.
The sunroof in my 2016 civic exploded this morning. there was no vehicles around me or overpasses. it sounded like a gun shot and then i heard glass shattering. thankfully i had the cover closed.
After parking and locking my vehicle, when i later returned to my car all four windows were open approximately 3/4 of the way. this has happened 3 times. in one instance, the car had been parked prior to a rainstorm and after the rain had ended, i went out to the car to go on an errand and again all four windows were 3/4 of the way open.
Driving down the highway and sunroof exploded. not going under any overpass or bridge. glass rained down on me at highway speeds. no cars near me. and not driving under an overpass or bridge at the time.
Takara recall i bought the car march 2016. summers get pretty hot in ohio so of course i have to use the ac. worked perfectly that year. well the following year when i went to use it it never worked at all. blew out warm air and never cooled down. so when i contacted the dealer they said " maybe you have a pin hole in a line, maybe compressor, low freon or something else." i was pretty upset that it wasn't under warranty anymore but how could something go wrong after one summer. i have kids and i'm unable to take them anywhere in my car because it's so hot. i have a buddy who has the same year and type vehicle and he has actually the same problem. i have read plenty of other complaints about this and wonder why the ac system hasn't had a recall yet. told it could cost up to $1000.00 to fix. dealership has had complaints about this and cant do anything until a recall is in place but said they will reimburse me when there is one so hold on to receipt. seems to be a common issue. i really hope honda looks into this matter. because it is really upsetting that this happened only after one year of driving it.
Sir/ma'am, i would like to address somewhat safety problem that many civic have. honda civic has a center touch screen that controls radio, temperature and importantly shows rear view camera and right side camera. today the center screen didn't even turn on and wasn't able to see an object rear and underneath of my car due to the screen not turned on. it is known issue for civic community. i wish that nhtsa take a look into this issues.
This car's horn really can not be heard by another driver. i really feel this is a safety hazard. i can't imagine a complaint has not been filed. it really is dangerous.
March 2017 - two instances while putting gas, nozzle got stuck in the capless system causing owner panic, left with no instructions to prevent such occurrence or solve the problem. opened ticket with honda april 2, 2017 case # 05919498 - no response as of today june 27, 2017. not sure prevalence, observed some complaints online.
I pressed my automatic start key from the window of the building , while i was getting ready ,(washing my face, brushing teeth) after a couple seconds later i heard the sound of the alarm , which would usually turn on if there is a hit or impact or loud sound . when i came downstairs, about 5-10 minutes later . i noticed the front window was shattered , i figured maybe one the neighbors was playing ball and hit my window, when i opened my door i realized there was a fire inside coming directly from the dashboard, everything was melted and my dashboard was also sunk in. i checked if there was an outlet connected or usb ports and did not find an answer. i contacted the dealership and they said they were unable to help and only advice that was given was to contact my insurance , they also added they would not be taking care of any damages in the vehicle and that they were not responsible for this and also did not know why, nor were even interested in investigating. the car was in complete park mode, and off overnight. no one deserves to take their siblings to school and instead be welcomed by a malfunctioning defective 2016 year vehicle.
Trunk spontaneously opens. it hasn't happened while driving. i have taken it to the dealer, contacted honda's headquarters. they are unable to reproduce the issue so cannot fix it. there are others on the civic online forum who are experiencing this issue. this is a security issue where i cannot keep anything in my trunk. this is not right. one night after i got home, i went back out to my car and the trunk was opened. on numerous occasions, i go out to my car in the morning or after work and my trunk is open. i keep the keys as far away from the car as i can, i hang them up, but them in the bedroom and it does not good--so it is not the sensitivity of the key. i also noticed my gas tank hatch opens after i fill the tank. see the attached correspondence to honda dated today.
Steering wheel controls stopped working.
American honda is the most fraudulent company i ever dealt with. within the 1st year, a serious problem developed with the trunk, which randomly opens for no reason, sometimes overnight, sometimes while driving on the highway, which is incredibly dangerous. we took the car 2x to the delray beach dealer , & it claimed itcouldn't identify or replicate the problem, & then that they fixed it. they did nothing & the problem never stopped. i wasted 2 days on these visits, accomplishing nothing. last month, now in california, & still under warranty, the trunk opened while i was away for a week, & i had water damage to > $200 of items in my trunk. i spoke with livette at honda, who told me to go to the berkeley dealer to have the car assessed. i reviewed the history of the matter, & told her i wanted to be sure the dealer would be authorized to make repairs. instead. i wasted another 4+ hours at the dealer, who said it couldn't identify & had never heard of the issue. there are hundreds of complaints about this on line, & when i showed them the complaints & how dealers had fixed the problem, the dealer said it needed approval from honda (honda said it needed the dealer to approve the repair, so it's like dealing with the insane). the dealer said it would call me after obtaining approval'they never did. livette was the most offensive person i have ever dealt with, lied to my face, & refused to authorize the repair & closed the case though she never even spoke with the dealer. these cars have a known dangerous defect & honda has done nothing'these cars should be recalled. the ntsb should track on-line complaints & obtain all honda complaints for the last 5 years to determine all models affected. the car's undercarriage is also known to be defective; it is far too low & scrapes on speed bumps & gets torn off by them, parking barriers, & any road incline.
I was driving down the highway and a small rock hit my windshield and cracked it right where the rear view mirror is attached. there is no impacted point in the glass just the splintering of the glass. safelite had to make a small hole just to do the repair. is this windshield defective? it happen to my son's girlfriend's 2017 honda civic as well. we both just purchased the vehicles. there are numerous complaints online as well. i am concerned that the windshield is inferior or defective and is a safety issue.
Today i purchased a new (demo/4,900+ miles) 2016 honda civic. while the salesman was demonstrating how to use the phone/connectivity features it was discovered the phone system was malfunctioning. i was advised to try it again when i drove off the lot to take my brand new car home and it may work when i got away from the lot. it did not. the phone is non working and the voice recognition is useless.
Driving the car home at 7 pm and heard a loud pop noise like a gunshot. no other vehicles in site and on a road where there are no homes just open fields. pulled over to find the sunroof had a huge hole in the middle of it and the rest of the glass that was still tact was in tiny pieces like and looked like a spider web. the glass was protruding upward like it had pressure from the inside. had the the visor for the sunroof been open in the car while it was being driven this glass would have fallen directly into our eyes possibly causing vision problems. i called honda care and they would not cover the repair because they said by the time the car got to the dealer ship to be repaired it had very little glass left in it. this car has under 2500 miles on it and i have not even paid the first note.
Brand new honda civic sedan touring has had navigation system/gps problems from day two: - does not acquire satellite data / does not connect to satellite - navigation system showing the car location completely wrong, sometimes by a mile - navigation system rebooting itself while driving - car symbol is wiggling all over the map while driving this happens almost every time car is driven, on a two-lane street or on a highway, day or night. more than 10 instances caught on video and pictures. there have been times when it endangered car passengers' safety by showing wrong information and giving wrong directions in unfamiliar surroundings where gps/navigation system were needed. it has been taken back to the selling dealership three times for repair: first time a navigation software "reset" was performed, second time was kept for 9 days and the hmi head was replaced, third time was kept for 6 days and the antenna was replaced. it continues to have the same problems. after more than 21 days of dragging their feet the selling dealership has agreed to look at the car again, monday jan. 16th. the car right now has less than 4,500 miles.
Takata recall hey, my car honda civic coupe broke down in september reason was tire and brake i think. i was driving in regular speed and my tire blowoff and brake didn't work in same time. i run over the hill and broke my both excel.
Purchased a new 2016 civic touring in may 2016. within a couple of weeks i was having small electrical issues such as screens going black, rebooting, and stereo not working. i would get a failure warning on the dash once in awhile (different each time). car failed to start on july 26th 2016. all screens were flashing error messages. car would not start. i called the dealer and had the car towed. dealer claimed they have never seem this problem. they kept the car for a couple of days and stated there was nothing wrong, and they couldn't replicate the problem. i would continue to have the same small problems with the car every so often. until, the car slammed on the brakes coming to a complete stop by itself and computer took 100% control of the car. i couldn't steer, accelerate, or control the car at all. i nearly got rear ended in an intersection. there was not a car directly in front of me that would have caused the collision avoidance to brake in order to avoid an accident. after the car came to a complete stop i regained control again and the car operated normal. soon after, while attempting to start the car i received the all the error codes again and it the car wouldn't start. i again called the dealer and had it towed. dealer cannot tell me why the car self braked and cannot replicate it. i have an open case# with honda of america. i have told both the dealership and honda of america the car is unsafe to drive. my wife and daughter are both scared for their safety to drive it. no one from my family including myself will be driving the car ever again, nor can i sell it to someone else. they need to purchase the car back from me and find out what is causing this to ensure no one gets seriously injured from this happening again.
Tl* the contact owns a 2016 honda civic. the contact stated that the horn was inaudible when activated. the vehicle was taken to the dealer, but the failure was not diagnosed. the vehicle was not repaired. the failure mileage was 3,000. updated 01/11/2017*ct
I bought my car in april 2016 and in september 2016 i complained about the ac blowing hot air. honda told me they found nothing. i received a letter from honda november 2019, that there were issues with the condenser. assuming this was the problem i took it so they can take a look at it. because it was a leaky compressor and not the condenser, i had to pay $150 for diagnostics. from other complaints i have read here, there is obviously a problem with a leaking compressor. how convenient for honda!! they are now profitting from these diagnostics test and ignoring that their ac has other problems. and to top it off they are charging $1600 to fix a faulty ac.
The sunroof spontaneously shattered. no rock, no object. exploded itself.
Repeated issues with faulty dashboard electronic warning system which alerts brake failure and experience with acceleration problem and other related issues. these issues occurred while driving on city streets.
Honda civic 2016 x 4s a pebble cracked windshield 60mph zone durham freeway 147 (4300 miles) july 17, 2016. replaced with honda windshield solar glass acoustic e4 dot 865asim7845. 43r-10979 on july 20, 2016. this windshield lasted 5 weeks. pebble in 45 mph zone nc state 87 with no vehicle in front of me on august 27, 2016. honda parts has a web page thread. this problem with cracked windshields is happening across the country with this model honda civic x. i am concerned about having an accident in this vehicle; since the windshields have not held up in a 45 mph and 60 mph posted speeds in both situations. these windshields are also in short supply. had to wait five weeks for the second one. have ordered my third windshield today. have photographs of both windshields but had some difficulty in uploading them to this page.
Unbelievable weaken windshield!!!
The 3rd brake light on my new civic has been repaired and replaced twice and it will not stay covering the brake light , poses a safety hazard while driving as it hangs down and at night the brake light shines thru the windshield will be taking back to dealer for third time to try and rectify.
At a certain freeway speed 60+ mph with the combination of a particular incline of the roadway the back end of the vehicle starts to slightly fishtail which leads to instability in controlling the vehicle. this fishtailing action takes place at the downward travel on the inclining road. we have tested this phenomenon several times and each time when the vehicle reaches that certain speed and certain roadway incline it has done this fishtailing motion. it's been on several different freeways with the same degree of incline. we have owned several honda civics and acuras in our family and have never experienced this driving instability in any of these vehicles. the tires have been rotated, thinking this might be the issue? no change at all. we mentioned to the honda service department and they look at you like your crazy and say they have never heard of this. so we decided to fill this complaint in fear of the safety factor. we have 3 different people that drive this vehicle and everyone has experienced the same fishtailing sensation. as you increase the vehicles speed and these particular inclines, the worse the fishtailing gets!!! we feel it must be some kind of design flaw relating to the aerodynamics of the vehicle? or it's not weighted down properly? we would very much appreciate a response and plan of action to see what exactly is causing this fishtailing issue. like i mentioned never have we felt this in any other of our honda civics or acuras driving that exact freeway at those speeds. something is definitely wrong and it is a safety concern for our family and other owners that might be experience this same driving instability. this has happened since the day we bought the vehicle new from the dealer.
Tire pressure monitoring system light erroneously illuminated at about 750 miles while travelling on interstate... car brand new... checked all pressures at 65f cold and all at pressures specified on door jamb... did not find any punctures or objects in tire... haven't taken it to dealer but i manually reset system by "calibrating..." light is now back at about 825 miles...
My wife gets 'sick' after riding in said car. we suspect that the car is emitting volatile organic compounds (vocs) to which she is sensitive. this has been an ongoing phenomenon since we purchased the car in august 2016 (it is now february 2017).
The cover for the third brake light on the rear window does not stay attached to my 2016 civic coupe. i believe it's going to cause a safety issue when it limits my visibility in rear view mirror. i bring my new car back to the dealer four time so far for the same problem and still not fix. their service department replace the third brake light cover but the new part does not stay attached either. i strongly believe that this part needs to be redesigned for a better attachment to the rear window . i do hope at this point that honda will fix this problem soon
Car purchased in may , with 3700 k has had 3 issues: getting ready to back up out of driveway - the backup screen was diminished to a small sliver across the top of entire screen with the balance of screen black. took it to dealer to be fixed. when i drove away, error messages, "tire pressure low, brake system problem, charging system problem and anti lock brake system problem." tok it right back to the dealer, they said the technician failed to forgot to allow the computer to run thru the entire cycle before returning the car to me. just had problem with the a/c. car would blow hot air after 15 mins of driving - was told hose was collasping keeping cold air from coming out. hose was replaced- did not fix the problem, same issue after 15 mins of driving. had to completely turn off air and leave it off for 1/2 hour or more to get a/c to work. dealer has now replaced the a/c compressor.
Certain honda civic's have apple's carplay installed, through the ios iphone mobile phone platform. when enabled, or plugged into the car, navigation support provided by apple's maps application goes into 'day mode' while at night. this creates a huge amount of brightness in the car and blinds the driver with brightness. there is no fix for this problem and i can easily see how accidents can be triggered due to blinding interior light due to the apple maps (through carplay) not working properly. this is clearly an error, or poor design by apple/honda. i believe that carplay's navigation function is a danger to the american public because having huge amounts of sudden brightness causes distraction and major problems with vision.
Vehicle has repeatedly thrown errors with warnings to not drive the vehicle and have it inspected by the dealer. the vehicle has already been to the shop twice for the problem. in both cases honda installed an updated vsa modulator they claimed would fix the problem. it has not. not the local dealer doesn't even want to see the vehicle as they tell me their is nothing more they can do for us. they claimed to have emailed honda corporate to have a regional rep contact us. it has been 4 days since. they say the vehicle is safe, but yet they don't even know what is wrong with it. the vehicle has a defect they cannot correct, and my car is not alone. please look at these two sites to see examples: http://hondacivicproblems.com and http://www.civicx.com/threads/tpms-abs-brake-system-acc-freak-out.1002/ each time the vehicle is not in motion. each time the error messages appear after starting the vehicle. each time the warnings instruct you not to drive the vehicle. errors include: cmbs problem, adaptive cruise control problem, tire pressure monitor system, brake system problem, anti-lock brake system, tire pressure low, and charging system problem.
Hi, i purchased 2016 civic in dec, 2015. i i have experience 3 issues till now 1. electronic brake - i have had 2 incidents where my electronic parking brake engaged automatically while driving, luckily was driving in city at lower speeds. but last week, was driving on interstate, stopped to fill gas - turned engine on, brake was engaged. would not respond to the brake switch. had to keep trying for a min or two before i was able to turn it off. 2. sudden resistance - have experience this quite frequently, need more acceleration to get the vehicle into motion mainly at traffic stops. 3. car radio - my model is equipped with all touch sensitive buttons. power button on radio mostly do not respond.
I leased the honda civic 2016 at woodland hills honda. it was after leasing date, within 24-48 hours time, i returned to the car dealership to explain that i did not have an understanding that the honda civic 2016 did not come with a cd player and only offered an auxiliary cord outlet to work the entire sound system by my cell phone. the car dealership explained that they were unwilling to help me with a new car unless i wanted to pay more money but i could not get a new car at the same price. i argued for months with the dealership that being forced to work the audio system and run my maps for navigation through my cell phone posed a serious threat of distracted driving. the car is built in such a way, that the driver is only given an option to use the cell phone to operate audio and navigation. the way that the car is built, without the cd player, and only an auxiliary cord to plug into my phone to work the sound system interface conflicts with the california anti-texting law vc 23123.5. being forced to work my sound system and maps for navigation on my cell phone is the same spirit as to what and why this is against the law. it is distracted driving. salesmen are not clearly explaining that you are buying a car with no cd player and you need to work your music from your cell phone. there is also more confusion at the point of sale because there are other cars that come with both the aux cord and also the cd player such as the honda accord 2016 pilot for example. when i purchased the vehicle, i believed i was buying a car with both the aux cord and the cd player. later, is when i learned, i leased the vehicle with only the aux cord option. i requested to end my contract on numerous occasions as i believed the car was a police magnet. i don't want to drive a car that makes me do something to attract officers. this is a safety and legal concern. ticketed on 8/31/16.
I bought a honda civic ex 2016 2.0 l on 2/17. on 2/24, the car broke down midway (miles driven 88). when vehicle was in motion, all kinds of video warning messages like problem with transmission, braking system, steering etc. started appearing on the center display were the vehicle's speed gets displayed(part of the tachometer / speedometer display). i had towed the vehicle to the dealer. next day the dealer returned the vehicle saying the car was in perfect condition and no warning lights are on. from that day onwards, i started facing intermittent problem with vehicle failing to accelerate which i feel is very unsafe. on 2/26 (at speed of 62 mph) and again on 3/4 (at speed of 46), while driving on the highway, the vehicle all of a sudden started losing acceleration inspite of me pushing the accelerator. now i am really concerned about my safety. i took the vehicle to dealer on 3/4 and it is with the dealer for the past 6 days. today (3/10), the dealer told me that the vehicle is in perfect condition as they are unable to recreate the problem. i am not feeling safe to drive this vehicle any more. i am lucky that i did not get into any accidents. the dealer is refusing to replace my vehicle and have asked me to take back the unsafe vehicle or trade-in the vehicle as an used vehicle. since it is not safe to drive it, i am left with no other option but to bear the loss and trade in the vehicle. the vehicle is under 200 miles (most of the miles added due my trips to dealer and the miles driven by the dealer). i have a case registered with american honda. but they also turned me down. i cannot take in any more pain. there is a recall on this model vehicle (honda civic ex 2016 2.0 l) and was also issued a stop of sale. inspite of all these i was sold the vehicle putting my life at risk. just because my vin number is not in the list does not mean there is no problem.
The trunk and glove compartment do not lock...their is no way to safely valet park the vehicle and leave anything in the trunk or the glove compartment. this may not be a driving safety issue but it is a safety issue non the less. honda must have lost their minds when they redesigned the vehicle. it makes absolutely no sense not be able to lock the trunk.
Audio system is not properly initializing about 80% of the time you start the car. while much of this is simply inconvenient (no sound for the radio) it affects safety as there is no sound for the built in gps forcing you to look at the gps for navigational prompts versus audio prompts and the bluetooth system does not function so during incoming or outcoming calls instead of using bluetooth hands free you must pick up your phone while driving which is illegal in many states and switch from the car mode to the handset mode and then use one hand to hold the phone to talk, further distracting from safe driving. this appears to affect the touring model only, honda is aware of the issue. happens in all driving conditions but is random (about 80% of the time audio does not work). honda case #04338617 was opened. they said to just wait for a fix, have owned car for 30 days now (new purchase). dealer has no solution either.